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ad343
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 Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 12:55 am Post subject: Terrorist Attacks in India |
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The recent terrorist attack in India demonstrates the importance of hotel security for foreigners abroad.
On November 27, 2008 a group of terrorists entered several hotels in Mumbai and opened fire on several people inside. The terrorists also held many of the guests hostage inside for several hours.
Once the police apprehended and interrogated the terrorists, they found that the terrorists targeted the hotel because they knew that many of the guests were foreigners from the United States and Great Britain. One of the witnesses inside later informed police that the terrorists were specifically seeking out foreigners from these countries during the attack.
This was a well planned attack against a hotel which specifically targeted foreigners in India.
Foreigners abroad must take several precautions when choosing lodging in a foreign country.
Remember to choose hotels with adequate security. This includes security measures such as security guards and cameras.
Also, familiarize yourself with emergency exits and other escape routes from the hotel. In the event of incidents such as this terrorist attack, you would be able to quickly exit the hotel and seek the help of the police for others inside.
Before this incident I’m sure many tourists viewed India as a safe place; the last place for a terrorist attack. You never know when or where an incident will occur. For this reason you should always be sure to practice sound personal security, no matter how safe you may think the country is that you are visiting.
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paul
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| Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 1:45 am Post subject: Re: Terrorist Attacks in India |
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| ad343 wrote: | | Remember to choose hotels with adequate security. This includes security measures such as security guards and cameras. |
And how do you do that exactly? Are you seriously telling me you only stay at hotels with security guards?
I would doubt any other hotels in Mumbai offered significantly superior levels of security to the Taj or the Oberoi.
The Taj had taken measures that prevented cars from parking up at its front entrance as an added security measure. They had also had a metal detector / baggage checking procedure at the entrance. Admittedly some of these measures were eased prior to the attacks, but they wouldn't have made much difference anyway as the terrorists entered the building from the back.
Paul
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ad343
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| Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 5:10 pm Post subject: Re: Terrorist Attacks in India |
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| paul wrote: | | ad343 wrote: | | Remember to choose hotels with adequate security. This includes security measures such as security guards and cameras. |
And how do you do that exactly? Are you seriously telling me you only stay at hotels with security guards?
I would doubt any other hotels in Mumbai offered significantly superior levels of security to the Taj or the Oberoi.
The Taj had taken measures that prevented cars from parking up at its front entrance as an added security measure. They had also had a metal detector / baggage checking procedure at the entrance. Admittedly some of these measures were eased prior to the attacks, but they wouldn't have made much difference anyway as the terrorists entered the building from the back.
Paul |
That's exactly what I'm saying. To do otherwise would be both foolish and dangerous. Stay at a hotel with security...period.
If it's true when you say that the terrorists entered in the back, then hotel security was not as "adequate" as it should have been. There should have also been security in the back. However, this is not to blame the staff at the hotels. If terrorists want to attack a location, then they will do so regardless of the security measures. For example, most embassies have some of the best security measures out there; however, they are still attacked.
What's the goal? It's called target hardening. You make your location "hardened" with all security measures possible. This way the terrorists seek out other targets with less or no protection.
Now like I mentioned above this may not stop terrorist attacks but it will deter them.
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paul
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| Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 10:34 pm Post subject: Re: Terrorist Attacks in India |
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| ad343 wrote: | | Stay at a hotel with security...period. |
I disagree. In some places, perhaps additional security would be desirable but for many parts of the world I don't think it's at all necessary.
| ad343 wrote: | | If it's true when you say that the terrorists entered in the back, then hotel security was not as "adequate" as it should have been. There should have also been security in the back. However, this is not to blame the staff at the hotels. If terrorists want to attack a location, then they will do so regardless of the security measures. For example, most embassies have some of the best security measures out there; however, they are still attacked. |
I'm confused by your post. You say they should employ security and then you say terrorists will attack regardless. That's implying that employing security is a waste of time.
| ad343 wrote: | What's the goal? It's called target hardening. You make your location "hardened" with all security measures possible. This way the terrorists seek out other targets with less or no protection.
Now like I mentioned above this may not stop terrorist attacks but it will deter them. |
And do you think this was true in the case of the Mumbai attacks? I don't. I would imagine the hotels that were under attack probably had more security than most in the city. This didn't appear to deter the terrorists. If it did, they'd have been targeting hotels with less security.
Paul
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ad343
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| Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 11:23 pm Post subject: |
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Paul,
I would like to thank you for you input and say that we have to agree to disagree.
However, I would close by inviting you to check out my website in the "About Me" section. There you will see that I have over 10 years years of law enforcement and security experience and can assure you that some security is better than no security.
Even though terrorist will attack, regardless of the number of security measures in place, does NOT mean that security professionals should give up. For example, there are laws against speeding and the police try to prevent it everyday but people still speed. Does this mean that the police should just give up? Of course not.
The same applies to target hardening. There will be future incidents but security officials should take all steps necessary to deter and prevent them. Security measures are NOT a waste of time.
As for why the terrorists attack these hotels rather than the others, who knows. However, I will suggest that they attacked these hotels because the knew they were frequented by foreign tourists. Also, I'm sure they conducted prior surveillance on the hotels and discovered the weakness in the security measures before the attack. This is the MO of terrorists, surveillance before an attack.
Anyways, again thanks for the input and comments. That's why I enjoy this forum because we can all exchange thoughts and keep each other safe during our travels.
Take care.
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paul
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| Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 2:01 am Post subject: |
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| ad343 wrote: | | Even though terrorist will attack, regardless of the number of security measures in place, does NOT mean that security professionals should give up. |
I never said they should.
| ad343 wrote: | | For example, there are laws against speeding and the police try to prevent it everyday but people still speed. Does this mean that the police should just give up? Of course not. |
I never say they should.
| ad343 wrote: | | The same applies to target hardening. There will be future incidents but security officials should take all steps necessary to deter and prevent them. Security measures are NOT a waste of time. |
I never said they were.
You are arguing points that I have not contested! To clarify...
You claimed that travellers should never stay in a hotel that doesn't have security. I take "security" there to mean more than just a room with a key, but actually a physical security presence (eg. a security officer, or perhaps several, possibly armed). I believe there are many hotels the world over where terrorism is of so little threat that this would be overkill, not to mention completely impractical for some.
You also argued that a security presence lessens the threat. Whilst that might be true sometimes, I am not convinced this was true in the case of the Mumbai attacks. There would be many hotels in Mumbai that would have had taken less security measures than the likes of the Oberoi or Taj Mahal Palace. IMO, these two were not targeted for having poor security, but instead because of their status within the city and the nature of guests that they attracted.
Paul
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Sparky
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| Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 10:51 am Post subject: |
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IMHO security is only likely to deter minor criminals, by giving less opportunity for, well, crimes of opportunity, but that's a completely different thing from a planned terrorist attack. At the end of the day if a terrorist is willing to die to commit an act of violence then a few security guards are unlikely to stop them trying.
There are certainly bits of the world where I think staying somewhere with security is a good plan, but I wouldn't expect hotels, in even a rough part of the world, to carry the kind of security contingent required to fight off a determined terrorist attack, the cost would be prohibitive, & the security measures required to secure the site would likely be a large incovenience to honest guests as well.
Given how rare these kinds of attacks are it doesn't seem worth the hassle IMO, sometimes you've just got to hope that you're not in the wrong place at the wrong time. *shrug*
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ad343
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| Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 8:01 pm Post subject: |
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Sparky,
I hear you but I don't agree. A security presence nor only deters minor criminals but also terrorists attacks. Note the word "deters" rather than "stops". You are right if a terrorist is hell bent on an attack, then an attack will happen.
What you might being failing to see is a liability arguement from the hotel's standpoint. If the hotel were to use your arguement and say "whatever we do is not enough, so let's do nothing" then it would have it pants sued off.
I think we can both agree that doing something is better than nothing, right?
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paul
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Sparky
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| Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 11:28 am Post subject: |
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| ad343 wrote: | Sparky,
I hear you but I don't agree. A security presence nor only deters minor criminals but also terrorists attacks. Note the word "deters" rather than "stops". You are right if a terrorist is hell bent on an attack, then an attack will happen. |
If they have a list of potential targets then, yes, they might go for the least well guarded, but if they've got their hearts set on hitting a particular site, then all the security in the world isn't going to deter them!
| Quote: | | What you might being failing to see is a liability arguement from the hotel's standpoint. If the hotel were to use your arguement and say "whatever we do is not enough, so let's do nothing" then it would have it pants sued off. |
I didn't say to do nothing, please don't try and put words in my mouth.
As for the hotels liability, so long as they've got adequate day to day security procedures there shouldn't be any question of them getting sued!
Todays blame and claim cultures have probably done far more damage (albeit less overtly destructive) to western society than the terrorists we're all meant to be living in fear of.
Sometimes S*%t just happens, & it's not really anybodies fault, there are large sections of society that seriously need to grow up and realise that! To sue a hotel because it was unlucky enough to be selected as a target by terrorists would, (assuming that it didn't have a "jihadists welcome" sign outside,) be completely assinine, & thoroughly deserving of a slap. 
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owen
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| Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 11:31 am Post subject: hi |
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hi i think Taj incident was preplanned and i am sure without knowing the top level management it is not possible to do such type of activity in any country.
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jimmy kim
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| Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 5:52 pm Post subject: |
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owen wrote that-
i am sure without knowing the top level management it is not possible to do such type of activity in any country.
So please, Owen can you tell me what you mean by top level management.
So what you have to say that when the 9/11 attacks happened in US the top level management were aware of all that.
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